Comments on: The World Trade Center Bombing – What Now? .././ Porque só o indivíduo tem consciência Sat, 06 Aug 2011 02:00:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Sergio de Biasi .././comment-page-1/#comment-10393 Sergio de Biasi Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:11:16 +0000 http://oindividuo2.wordpress.com/?p=85#comment-10393 The "kill them all" approach would already be morally debatable even if we knew exactly where and who "they" are. But the thing is - we don't, and if we just start killing random people because we're angry, well, that's a very dark road to follow. Ironically, the values of "freedom" and "civil rights" and "respect to human dignity" which are supposed to be the justification for this sort of reaction are much more endangered by all the self-inflicted paranoid totalitarian stuff that you mentioned than by any terrorist action. The "war on terror" is waged mostly through terror, and mostly through terror on innocent people, with the "justification" that "we don't know who the bad guys are". Well, if it goes on like this, we are not going to need any bad guys. We will be doing their job ourselves. As for "what do they want", apart from delirious fundamentalist extremists frequently rejected by their own societies and who often wouldn't even have any political importance if the US had not artificially funded and encouraged them when this seemed to be politically useful, most people just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace without being shot or exploded. Trying to shoot or explode them or their families seems to upset this balance a bit though, and not in the direction of increased serenity. And as far as "why can't we find him" goes, it could be even worse than "it would not be strategically useful to actually find him". It's probably the case that even what it's supposedly being looked for is largely a fabrication, a myth - like the weapons of mass destruction that were not even there or didn't mean what we thought to start with. Best, Sergio The “kill them all” approach would already be morally debatable even if we knew exactly where and who “they” are. But the thing is – we don’t, and if we just start killing random people because we’re angry, well, that’s a very dark road to follow.

Ironically, the values of “freedom” and “civil rights” and “respect to human dignity” which are supposed to be the justification for this sort of reaction are much more endangered by all the self-inflicted paranoid totalitarian stuff that you mentioned than by any terrorist action. The “war on terror” is waged mostly through terror, and mostly through terror on innocent people, with the “justification” that “we don’t know who the bad guys are”. Well, if it goes on like this, we are not going to need any bad guys. We will be doing their job ourselves.

As for “what do they want”, apart from delirious fundamentalist extremists frequently rejected by their own societies and who often wouldn’t even have any political importance if the US had not artificially funded and encouraged them when this seemed to be politically useful, most people just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace without being shot or exploded. Trying to shoot or explode them or their families seems to upset this balance a bit though, and not in the direction of increased serenity.

And as far as “why can’t we find him” goes, it could be even worse than “it would not be strategically useful to actually find him”. It’s probably the case that even what it’s supposedly being looked for is largely a fabrication, a myth – like the weapons of mass destruction that were not even there or didn’t mean what we thought to start with.

Best,
Sergio

]]> By: CS .././comment-page-1/#comment-10343 CS Thu, 03 Feb 2011 21:56:26 +0000 http://oindividuo2.wordpress.com/?p=85#comment-10343 [10 years later....] I would generally consider myself a pacifist of sorts... but other than annihilating some area where we suspect the terrorists hide out or annihilating Mecca itself, I don't know what other solutions there are. These are not rational people we're dealing with. They are not interested in peace. They need to be dealt with in such a way that they understand. Not only that but attacks need to be made on entities funding these people. Cut their funding, cut their supplies, cut everything. Those who fund them are equally guilty. This situation has been raging on for 10 years, now, with people pointing fingers at each other, starting wars all over the middle east, the former administration convincing the public that Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden are the same person and responsible for 9/11, the new administration sending more troops to "fight the war on terror" under the same premise as the old administration, etc. What do we have to show for it? Nothing but weakness on our part? Body scans at airports? security pat downs? The Patriot Act? How many "terrorists" have been caught this way? Last time I checked, a big fat grand total of "0". Makes you wonder who really is winning this "war on terror"... The question that no one has been able to answer is "What do they want?" What does Al Qaeda want? What is their objective? It seems to me that the general public doesn't even bother to stop and ask why is this happening? What do they want? Why has this never been addressed publicly? You cannot force peace on these people. These are irrational Islamic extremists. Peace is not what they want and I don't see any other way of dealing with them if its not 1) destroying Mecca and 2) making examples out of them... This is a nihilist point of view but these are not rational people that you can deal with in a civilized manner. Even if "what they want" became publicized and we "give it to them", it will not stop them. You have these people posing as innocent civilians with bombs strapped under their clothes. How are you to stop this? Unfortunately, I don't see any other way than to deal with these extremists using what they are most familiar with. How is it that a nation that put a man on the moon cannot find another man who is supposedly hiding out in a cave in Pakistan? Is it that they really have no interest in finding him? (Probably)... [10 years later....]
I would generally consider myself a pacifist of sorts… but other than annihilating some area where we suspect the terrorists hide out or annihilating Mecca itself, I don’t know what other solutions there are. These are not rational people we’re dealing with. They are not interested in peace. They need to be dealt with in such a way that they understand. Not only that but attacks need to be made on entities funding these people. Cut their funding, cut their supplies, cut everything. Those who fund them are equally guilty.

This situation has been raging on for 10 years, now, with people pointing fingers at each other, starting wars all over the middle east, the former administration convincing the public that Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden are the same person and responsible for 9/11, the new administration sending more troops to “fight the war on terror” under the same premise as the old administration, etc. What do we have to show for it? Nothing but weakness on our part? Body scans at airports? security pat downs? The Patriot Act? How many “terrorists” have been caught this way? Last time I checked, a big fat grand total of “0″. Makes you wonder who really is winning this “war on terror”…

The question that no one has been able to answer is “What do they want?” What does Al Qaeda want? What is their objective? It seems to me that the general public doesn’t even bother to stop and ask why is this happening? What do they want? Why has this never been addressed publicly?

You cannot force peace on these people. These are irrational Islamic extremists. Peace is not what they want and I don’t see any other way of dealing with them if its not 1) destroying Mecca and 2) making examples out of them… This is a nihilist point of view but these are not rational people that you can deal with in a civilized manner. Even if “what they want” became publicized and we “give it to them”, it will not stop them. You have these people posing as innocent civilians with bombs strapped under their clothes. How are you to stop this? Unfortunately, I don’t see any other way than to deal with these extremists using what they are most familiar with.

How is it that a nation that put a man on the moon cannot find another man who is supposedly hiding out in a cave in Pakistan? Is it that they really have no interest in finding him? (Probably)…

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